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October 14, 2004

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Lordfly Digeridoo

Ack! You're making SL prettier?

My Geforce can barely handle the load now! :)

Nice to see ya'll are working on the load problems. It's much appreciated. :)

LF

Cory Ondrejka

Quick comment on look improvements:

We are making every effort to not increase the minimum spec. However, we do want it to look better for people with higher-end cards.

Lisse Livingston

You're using MySQL?!

Have you looked into PostgreSQL? IME, it handles multiple client/server connections a great deal more efficiently.

Oz Spade

Thanks for keeping us up to date Cory, this is something we've been asking for! :D A requested feature about new features, heheh.

These all sound like great and needed fixes/additions!

I think the "lost my house" bug reports would also be cut down more if people had better inventory search features themselves, which it sounds like you guys are working on too.

Are the improved graphics the same thing as when Philip mentioned how lighting was being reworked? Same package I mean.

Also what do you mean by in-world UI's and text display?

Chibi Chang

Well, I belive I know part of the UI problem-- I tried playing Second Life in Steroscopic vision, and apparently, all of the UI objects are drawn on the opengl level, including the freetype text. --If either lags, all will lag. Though a valid excuse for this is 'transparent windows', I'm sure still you could get off rendering the interface on a diffrent layer. It could improve the framerate vastly (Hint - graphics card Antistropic Filtering / Anti-Aliasing over freetype = death), and also enable Second Life to be played in steroscopic vision, with a readable menu interface.
I belive there would also be a benifit from using a 3d level pointer, as 2d level objects render on the top of the screen and thus in SS mode, the mouse is miles off of where it's actually clicking.

Gwyneth Llewelyn

Cory, many many thanks for keeping us so well informed!

Chibi, thanks for clarifying to me why I get chat lag, and pointing out such an obvious solution to getting rid of it... I really hope the programmers at LL use your suggestion on a future release!

Tinker LaFollette

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Cory. I think updates like this are an excellent idea.

In some future update, I'd like to know more about how the development process works at LL. Things like your source control system, IDEs in use, build tools, bug tracking, whether you do nightly builds, that sort of thing.

Jack Digeridoo

All those things are exciting fixes, but what about the packetloss meter? Mine is red, jumps from 5-100% packet loss in crowded areas. Wouldn't a sim load really fast with 0% packet loss?

Chris Altman

The packet loss sounds like a local issue. I've never seen even 1% packet loss, no matter how heavily loaded the sim. Theoretically, system load on the server side should not generate any packet loss, unless there is a faulty piece of hardware (network controller, router, switch, cabling, etc) or a really poorly-written network controller driver, and those are both things that would manifest themselves for all client connections. If you're showing packet loss, I suggest running some basic tests along the various points between your client and the SL servers, and see what's dropping your packets.

I second Lisse's concern over MySQL! I certainly understand the considerations, in general, that go into designing the infrastructure of a large and hopefully scalable system. I also understand the financial burden that is undertaken with a product such as Oracle. However, experience has also taught me that with very few exceptions, the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is true. I've been in the frustrating situation of having to try to eke the last bit of life out of MySQL in applications that grew beyond projections, and almost universally have had no choice but to migrate the applications to Oracle. In a couple situations the cash outlay required to deploy Oracle was prohibitive, and PostgreSQL showed to be an acceptable stop-gap, at least.

I've never quite understood why people make the MySQL choice. Even something as basic and fundamental as transaction locking was, until very recently, not available in MySQL.

Strife Onizuka

Ohhh i just love back seet programing :p

Doesn't really suprise me that attachments do that. I had a nasty attachment bug where one set overwrote another set in my inventory (i reported it). Instead of having one set of each, i had two sets of one and no set of the other. Oh this will kill my poor 3 year old GF3, guess it's time to buy a new computer.

Unknown

Chris Altman, if you believe that the constant service wide high level packet loss happening on a regular basis is a 'local issue' you either don't understand what's being talked about or have not experienced Second life in the past few months. The packet loss is simultaneous for everybody, it is a problem either directly on LL's network or via. their choice of data center - it has not really improved since their move of the remainder of server from (and I quote) the 'bad' data center to the 'good data center. LL tried to pretend that it was not their problem for a long time, but it became extremely obvious that it was.

We all experience packet loss at some time or another but for everybody to experience high levels simultaneously in Second Life is not indicative of a local issue, I'm afraid.

Huns

Oh boy, RDBMS religion arguments... :)

People love to slam MySQL and say that Postgres is somehow "better." They were doing it in 2001, just as today. Well, let me tell you something I did in 2001. I had to write an app that ate about 2500 rows every 15 minutes. I benchmarked MySQL and Postgres with actual data collected from the devices I was monitoring. Not only was Postgres a lot slower, but my projections indicated that with the then-current growth rate, Postgres would have been totally incapable of keeping up with the rate of inserts going forward (the app SNMP queried carrier-class dialup gear in one data center, and we were going to roll it out in about five more across the country.) Totally unacceptable. At the time, Postgres was notorious for eating tables if it crashed, which MySQL wasn't - another disincentive.

Now, maybe PGSQL is faster today, I don't know... but today, MySQL has full atomicity, subselects, etc... and it has always had really neat features, like AUTO_INCREMENT and LIMIT that are (in my opinion) missing pieces in other database systems... so unless you need a procedural language, what is the point?

Google uses MySQL. What do you guys think about that?

Francis

Cory you tease! But I like this blog .plan update thing. Great to see what's on the horizon and what LL's up to.

*grins* Now to get waaay offtopic...
MySQL has always been faster than Postgres. That's because it's barely a database. You get a lot of speed by making shortcuts about data integrity and reliability. (eg. Journaling) Last time I checked, MySQL couldn't even handle tables larger than 4GB. (Dependent on maximum file size)

Google doesn't use MySQL. At least, not for anything important. Google uses a proprietary non-posix distributed file system which is definately not compatible with MySQL or Postgres. (The paper is in the proceedings of SOSP'03 - read it! It's very cool!)

Morgaine Dinova

Is the front seat scalable? There's a wealth of development talent out here, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the back seat programmers would love to jump into the front seat with you. :-)

Jokes aside, there is a wealth of manpower available in the open source community. Although SL does employ a few open libraries, the community contribution is not substantive nor world-focussed, and the latter in particular is important if the current snail's pace of progress is to accelerate. It's fair to say that the degree to which one does all development in-house is the degree to which one's development resourcing is non-scalable. That's not an empty adjective: if a competitor with a better development scaling model appears, you're history ... so don't let it happen!

The technical community resource is there to be harnessed. Be creative to find the right development model (it certainly doesn't require opening the whole lot, nor loss of design control), and there will be no stopping SL.

Let us out of the back seat, it's too crowded back here! :-)

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