Friday, December 02, 2005


Arguments and counter-arguments for P2P teleportation...

Back when Second Life was a tiny world, Residents could magically teleport point-to-point: that is, from any place on the grid to any other place, just like that. Shortly after launching commercially, however, Linden Lab introduced "telehubs", scattered throughout the grid. From then on, when you teleported from point A to point B, you were actually sent to the telehub nearest to point B-- usually a few hundred meters away, meaning you had to travel the remaining distance on your own power (fly, walk, vehicle.) In the same way, in the offline world, that a public transit system tends to create a civic gathering place and neighborhood around each of its stops, telehubs were a way to mitigate the urban sprawl of a constantly expanding world. A place to meet folks, and a chance to look around, wherever you were going. Smart urban metaverse planning, in other words.

All that's about to change. Linden Lab recently announced that an imminent update would re-introduce P2P teleportation. Telehubs-- which, unsurprisingly, drove up the real estate prices of the surrounding land-- would then be transitioned into some kind of public/community space.

Also unsurprisingly, the decision has generated energetic Resident debate on whether this will be good for the world at large, so I offer two contrary opinions from the SL blogosphere. For P2P, there's Forseti Svarog, who addresses the fears that the end of telehubs will lead to urban blight with a 15,000 word rebuttal. (So to speak.) Offering close to 15,000 actual words is Gwyneth Llewelyn, who is decidedly more pessimistic:

In a sense, SL will be a place of isolated chatrooms, linked together through point-to-point teleporting. People will not care what is "in-between"... It won't simply interest them. Notions like urban planning or organic growth will simply not fit in this model — what will be important is the ultimate destination, not how and why you get there... This will definitely not "destroy" Second Life, or "destroy" SL's economy, or make everybody go away in disgust, or anything like that. The only thing that will happen is that Second Life won't be a "virtual country" any more — ever again. It will be a collection of snapshots linked together by teleports.

For my part, I wonder what will happen to the various technologies that Residents introduced in the era of telehubs to make traveling more efficient: specifically ROAM, created by Francis Chung and Rathe Underthorn, a fairly cool and ingenious means of traveling point-to-point through an auto-mapped, AI-piloted jetpack with a Google-style web interface for searching the places you want to go. (Torley Torgeson has write-ups on ROAM here and here.)

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Actually, ROAM has a better future than you may think. One of the implementation changes mentioned is to include something like an llTeleport() available with permissions and all.

As someone who's primarily only an island-hopper, ROAM and its competing variants was not worth the investment of my time or L$. That may yet change.


Posted by: Alan_Kiesler at Dec 2, 2005 2:45:54 PM

I kinda have the feeling we are overestimating the value of telehubs in exploration. I think many people already have a de facto point to point system where they look for destinations of interest by using the find feature, teleporting to the nearest telehub, and then flying to the red beacon without really paying attention or caring what's on the way, or even worse, getting annoyed by stupid malls designed to trap a flying avatar.

I don't know about others, but all of my favorite places I found through word of mouth or the find feature, not by stumbling upon them going from telehub to point x.

Posted by: Vincent Doctorow at Dec 2, 2005 6:17:29 PM

I agree. Personally, when I feel like having fun, I use the find menu. Though when I feel like exploring, I just fly without aim.

Recently I've started exploring all of the sims, from the top to the bottom of the map. I am doing this because it will be fun and interesting to see all the things people have created, as well as because this way I can maybe get some inspiration for my own creations.

I believe that each person has their own ideas of how land should be used and what they enjoy doing in SL. This point-to-point system will not destroy these ways of life, they will merely change them a little.

They will not keep you from exploring, they will not keep you from attending events, they will not keep you from seeing the things you want to see. They will only make it easier for people to get where they're going quickly.

If you like to stroll, you can stroll. Nothing is stopping you.

But if you're in a rush (as so many people seem to be), you don't have to worry about lag or distance anymore.

I believe this a somewhat beneficial change.

~Ghordon Farina

Posted by: Ghordon Farina at Dec 2, 2005 8:49:04 PM


Check out my thoughts here.

Posted by: Hiro Pendragon at Dec 3, 2005 2:35:49 AM

The people who have a gut reaction against P2P might have it because of the following two reasons: 1) they seem to believe that we should favor urban development that mimics RL for some reason and 2) that RL urban development is less a slave to homgeneous clustering. Their belief in 1) might be a result of their belief in 2), thus that somehow RL population geographical distributions are more heterogenous. This is far from the truth--in fact as population increases in RL there is more and more homogenous clustering. The phenomenon in the US is towns that are homogenously ardent left-wing Democrats being right next to towns that homogenously agresssively right-wing Republicans. All this, despite the lack of RL teleportation. Sure P2P teleportation might speeden homogenous clustering. But if one DOES choose to walk around, they will be prone to running into colonies that are much more drastically different from their own--because P2P teleportation would increase the likelihood that a colony that revolves around a sexual fetish would end up next to a colony of religious evangellies...

Posted by: Augustus at Dec 5, 2005 7:00:51 AM

On p2p, I'd personally rather see it strictly as an LSL function residents can then use to create custom solutions instead of building it into the client. Further, the removal of other built-in features would then follow this move (e.g. classified listings).

With regard to concerns about resident exploration, I read and blogged about an article I came across earlier today which seems relevant. One of the takeaways for me was that - at least in the market framework of the article - "adventure" is desired. Even necessary. Second Life has a vibrant market economy and so I expect people will venture out regardless of circumstance; and not just to buy things. You can read snips from the article and find a link here.

Posted by: csven at Dec 5, 2005 3:13:21 PM

How many of Forseti's pictures were taken on private islands? How many of those areas have ban lists or admit-only lists? And anyone who has seen a gorgeous private island sim with gorgeous terraforming and immersiveness of place and atmosphere will also remember the dreadful abrupt jarring experience they have suddenly seeing the world drop off into black nothingness around it. Of course, Hiroland and Ansheland are continents made up of archipelagos of such islands where they've worked hard to put in beauty and infrastructure and keep out ugliness but people are certainly not entirely happy there because they've had to give up some freedoms, i.e. of building as they like to get some freedoms, i.e. freedom from ugly builds -- at least by the lights of the developers.

Many people have stereotyped telehubs. Out of some 48, perhaps 10 have really severe av-trapping, building-rez-in-your-face problems. The rest, including most news in the last year, have space -- even pretty woods -- all around them, with buildings then forced to set back.

Many people already TP directly to one another using "offer TP".

When p2p is enabled, many people will instinctively cringe, and toggle it off, or put ban-all on their land if there is no toggle, to avoid map-happy day trippers landing in their laps. People really fear the invasion of privacy in SL -- SL will become a sea of red lines.

A telehub was a place that was open 24/7/365 to incoming browing, curious, random, fly-by traffic to have an opportunity to see diverse, open, democratic availability of products in the marketplace.

With p2p, we will be forced into going only to those areas we hear about by word-of-mouth on our 1,400 plus servers, which means those with the most words in the loudest mouths will win -- primarily the forum FIC 5-percent. It will be tremendously hard for people to get noticed.

Far from increasing flow and friendship and interaction, paradoxically, like a lot of touted new thingies like this, it will lead to more elitism, nichism, closing off of people who are viewed as feebs, choads, tards, trolls, whatever. It really is the dawning of a horrid new totalitarian age with capacities of closure that have been undreamt of by any rules of any age due to the sheer amount of information that will be gathered and levels of subtle control that will be affected.

Posted by: Prokofy Neva at Dec 6, 2005 11:27:52 PM

What's that, Prok? The sky is falling AGAIN?! That's gotta be some kind of record.

Personally, I'm going to withhold judgement until it's implemented and the community adjusts to it. Could be good, could be bad, but I think predicting such a thing is an exercise in futility. Too many X factors- too many different kinds of residents and developers. At the very least p2p is a worthwhile experiment. And if it totally ruins the SL experience and people cancel their accounts by the tens of thousands you can go ahead and say, "I told you so." ;)

Posted by: Persig Phaeton at Dec 7, 2005 1:35:40 PM

Augustus, actually, you have pointed out a slight incorrection. It isn't the ones "against" p2p teleporting that have "gut reactions". If you take some time to take a look at what they write, you'll see that they are the ones fundamenting their arguments with data, facts, statistics, numbers.

Let's take some examples, from the more obvious to the less ones:
- Land is valued higher at teleport hubs. In a free market, people can choose to buy land elsewhere where it's cheaper. So why do the prices rise near the telehubs? Supply and demand.
- Traffic is higher near teleport hubs. This is obvious — people "radiate" from them emerging from telehubs, even if they're just flying to their final destination. Still, they cross other people's lands first, and leave "traffic points" there. Naturally, higher-density traffic-generating land (even if it's only by travelling across them quickly) is more valuable.
- Malls pop up at telehubs, as well as adverts. If nobody would use them (like so many claim), why are telehub mall owners losing money? To make us angry with them? It doesn't make sense, does it? When someone says "oh, but I never shop at telehub malls, and I don't know anyone who does", this is what we call *anecdotal evidence*. The truth is, telehub mall owners/ad sellers are making money from their investments there. If they didn't get a good return, they would be elsewhere
- Telehubs may (or may not) be "community aggregators". Here is where "gut feeling" steps in — for some, they are; for others, not at all. However, what they are is "landscape attractors" — and not "pretty buildings" like others claim. Sure, they "attract" perhaps the *wrong* kind of urban development. That is a question of aesthetics and personal taste (I personally hate most of the telehub sprawls, but I've also found a few exceptions). But it's undeniable that they shape the landscape — they provide a degree of zoning that doesn't exist on the rest of the "virtual country".

These are *facts*. You may dismiss them, ignore them, or simply acknowledge them but try to bury them forever. Well, that's all good and fine, but *that's* denying them — and that is what I call "gut feeling": argumentation based on anything but facts.

"Gut feeling" is when people say "I hate telehubs and everyone else hates them as well" or "they are newbie avatar traps and everybody knows that" or "I have never shopped at telehub malls and don't know anyone who does". Well, it's sad to say, but all these are *personal experiences and opinions*. Perfectly valid, absolutely allowed (and encouraged), but still — they're not facts.

You raise some other questions which, however, are pertinent. One is if urban development in SL should mimic RL. There are two possible answers for that. The first is the more immediate one: yes, because even on a virtual world, we think and behave like human beings, and we are used to familiarity. So, what we see in SL is that while we can build surreal landscapes, the truth is, the number of people who actually build them is very, very small — I'd say, amounting to the same number of people who do surreal painting/sculpting/architecture in RL as well.

Surrealism is something we have had iRL for several decades, it's not necessarily a new artistic movement. Still, I bet all my weekly income in SL that your home, very likely, has a rectangular entrance and transparent windows. But why is that so, when current building techniques could give you an hexagonal entrance and have plasma screens instead of windows, or pink-tinted windows with some art painted on it? It's neither impossible, nor even too expensive these days, comparatively speaking. But almost no one does it.

This could be argued, but the truth is that surrealism is actually a moribund (not dead yet) art form, and curiously enough, the current mainstream trend is "magical realism". That's what SL is (or has been so far): a land which is very similar to ours, but with some... magical, fantastic elements. We can fly. We can literally build castles in the air. We can go through walls.

I certainly don't want to discuss surrealism vs. magical realism in SL — although this is definitely a very interesting topic for the artistic types in SL, who sometimes pick this up and do excellent discussions in-world — but simply to make a point here: yes, we need, to a degree, to "mimic" the RL, because that's how *most* of us prefer to experience the world. However, I agree that some people wish to explore surrealism instead. They are perfectly able to do that — use the private islands. As a matter of fact, giving private island owners more tools — like disabling gravity, different textures for the sky or the sea, etc. — would be much more interesting and compelling for the artistically inclined which would like to explore those venues. I can perfectly envision a conglomerate of surrealistic islands join together into a hallucinogenic experience, distorting all our senses, twisting our usual expectations of "up", "down", "left", "right", and giving us all an unforgetful experience. I'm all for it!

Just not on the mainland. Please.

Last but not least, I don't get your argument of having democrat/republican cities side by side (in my country the landscape is even more fragmented among 5 major political forces...) as being an example of not-homogeneous clustering. The issue is not only "clustering" (for better or for worse) but the issue of urban planning vs. chaotic development. Chaotic development also *works*. So many of the older, 2-year-old sims have slowly, over time, gotten more planned, as old residents went away and the staying ones expanded their domains until they imposed a structure on the land. Now contrast that with a planned community in SL, which in a month or two achieves the same result. For me, that is the big question. Sure, "order" can emerge from chaos, if you wait long enough. But isn't it much more important to start with order from the very beginning? Results are achieved much faster that way...

Definitely this is not a case where "the world will come to an end". It won't. A few may leave (even I have some doubts about it), but in a year, we'll have a population of 300,000 people, and 2/3 of those will never know what "telehub" meant in 2004/5. They'll be very happy and content SL residents, p2p tp'ing from private island to private island, and commenting briefly "hey, have you ever stopped at the wasteland? — what for, there isn't anything interesting there to see". That's what SL in late 2006 will become (many would claim that we're half-way there already!). Is that "the end of the world"? Not at all. Just a very, very different mindset and a completely different paradigm. Is that "good" or "bad"? I don't think this will apply; in late 2006, that question will be as pointless to ask as today it's pointless to ask what SL would be without L$, or without meshed avatars. It'll just be — different.

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